Episode 45 highlights – Komal Faiz podcast about International & Cross Cultural UX Research :

• Komal’s research on international women’s mobility challenges
• Tips for doing research across multiple countries and cultures
• Culture differences and considerations when doing research in other countries
• How language can make so much of a difference in research
• Small but impactful steps you can take to do better UX research

Links from this episode:

• https://www.komalfaiz.com/
• https://www.routledge.com/Contentious-Cities-Design-and-the-Gendered-Production-of-Space/Berry-Moore-Kalms-Bawden/p/book/9780367520199

Episode Transcript

(this transcript was automatically created using our very own transcription feature in Aurelius and has been minimally edited, please excuse any typos or weirdness 😀 )

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This is the Aurelius podcast episode 45 with Komal Faiz. I’m Zack Naylor co-founder at Aurelius and your host for the Aurelius podcast where we discuss all things ux research and product in this episode. We have Komal Faiz a ux researcher strategic innovator and new author. She joined me to share her experience doing some really interesting cross-cultural research work. She and a larger team did in understanding women’s Mobility challenges in countries like Malaysia and
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an through this conversation Komal all brought up some really interesting findings of her own experience and how research execution changes when you’re looking to learn from different cultures and some things we can all consider to be more thoughtful and inclusive in the work that we do even if it’s not such a broad Global context. The Aurelius podcast is brought to you by Aurelius the powerful research repository and insights platform. Aurelius is an all-in-one space for researchers to organize notes capture insights.
an through this conversation comb all brought up some really interesting findings of her own experience and how research execution changes when you’re looking to learn from different cultures and some things we can all consider to be more thoughtful and inclusive in the work that we do even if it’s not such a broad Global context. The Aurelius podcast is brought to you by Aurelius the powerful research repository and insights platform. Aurelius is an all-in-one space for researchers to organize notes capture insights.
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Is data and share outcomes with your team. We recently announced two of our biggest features yet Aurelius now offers transcriptions and our automatic report Builder, you can add any audio or video recording and have notes created for you automatically. Then Aurelius automatically creates a report with every key insight and recommendation from your project which you can then edit design and share with anyone right from Aurelius. Check us out at Aurelius lab.com. That’s a you re l
Is data and share outcomes with your team. We recently announced two of our biggest features yet Aurelius now offers transcriptions and our automatic report Builder, you can add any audio or video recording and have notes created for you automatically. Then Aurelius automatically creates a report with every key insight and recommendation from your project which you can then edit design and share with anyone right from Aurelius. Check us out at Aurelius lab.com. That’s a you re l
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Liu S. L– A b.com. Okay, let’s get to it a coma Isaac. How are you? Great. How are you doing? I’m not bad. We’re rounding up the end of 2020. So when this comes out folks hopefully we’ve turned the corner by then. But you know, I think we’re all at this point kind of hanging on and just as arbitrary is that time and date is I think we’re all ready to be passed it, but I’m pretty good all things considered and I appreciate you jumping on and taking the time to chat. Absolutely. It’s a
Liu S. L– A b.com. Okay, let’s get to it a coma Isaac. How are you? Great. How are you doing? I’m not bad. We’re rounding up the end of 2020. So when this comes out folks hopefully we’ve turned the corner by then. But you know, I think we’re all at this point kind of hanging on and just as arbitrary is that time and date is I think we’re all ready to be passed it, but I’m pretty good all things considered and I appreciate you jumping on and taking the time to chat. Absolutely. It’s a
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To be here talking about ux research with you and end of the year. So this is a good news. Yeah least I certainly hope so what is you know, there’s a couple weeks left and with what we’ve seen there’s always enough time for something else crazy to happen. But oh my God. Yeah. I’m just clinging to Hope as we do with every episode. I would love if you could maybe just introduce yourself share a little bit about background in case scenario. Some folks don’t know you are not familiar with your work. Absolutely. So I am calm Affairs. I’m a ux researcher.
To be here talking about ux research with you and end of the year. So this is a good news. Yeah least I certainly hope so what is you know, there’s a couple weeks left and with what we’ve seen there’s always enough time for something else crazy to happen. But oh my God. Yeah. I’m just clinging to Hope as we do with every episode. I would love if you could maybe just introduce yourself share a little bit about background in case scenario. Some folks don’t know you are not familiar with your work. Absolutely. So I am calm Affairs. I’m a ux researcher.
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Sure, and also a strategic innovator. I’ve been in the field for six seven years now and I have a master’s in strategic foresight and Innovation from ocad University Toronto have communication design bachelor’s from National College of Arts Pakistan recently found out a great thing as a milestone that my book as a co-author is out. It’s called contentious cities. It’s published by Routledge & edited by editors from Melbourne University. So yeah, I’m currently working as a ux researcher as insurance in
Sure, and also a strategic innovator. I’ve been in the field for six seven years now and I have a master’s in strategic foresight and Innovation from ocad University Toronto have communication design bachelor’s from National College of Arts Pakistan recently found out a great thing as a milestone that my book as a co-author is out. It’s called contentious cities. It’s published by Routledge & edited by editors from Melbourne University. So yeah, I’m currently working as a ux researcher as insurance in
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Don’t Canada loving my field have a lot of interest in Mobility travel insurance Finance sounds contradictory, but I love both sides. So yeah, that’s me. Yeah, okay part of why I wanted to chat with you as I think that you’ve done some really interesting work on a couple of those topics that you’ve actually given talks about and even the book that you mentioned you co-authored. I believe touches on I haven’t read it yet because I just came out, you know be really useful to kind of maybe share some of the background there and what led you to
Don’t Canada loving my field have a lot of interest in Mobility travel insurance Finance sounds contradictory, but I love both sides. So yeah, that’s me. Yeah, okay part of why I wanted to chat with you as I think that you’ve done some really interesting work on a couple of those topics that you’ve actually given talks about and even the book that you mentioned you co-authored. I believe touches on I haven’t read it yet because I just came out, you know be really useful to kind of maybe share some of the background there and what led you to
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To those interest in some of that work that you’ve done amazing. Yeah. This is probably my favorite topic and project to talk about what you’re mentioning about the talks and the book itself. It’s connected to a project called we mobile it was funded by the Arts and Humanities research Council UK. And basically it brought together researchers from UK us Pakistan Malaysia, and we all work together to understand what are the mobility barriers that women are facing in low and middle income countries, especially bugs and me.
To those interest in some of that work that you’ve done amazing. Yeah. This is probably my favorite topic and project to talk about what you’re mentioning about the talks and the book itself. It’s connected to a project called we mobile it was funded by the Arts and Humanities research Council UK. And basically it brought together researchers from UK us Pakistan Malaysia, and we all work together to understand what are the mobility barriers that women are facing in low and middle income countries, especially bugs and me.
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Asia comparing it to life in the UK. We try to understand how it really impacts women’s lives and life decisions. So it was an incredible project. Honestly, I got to go to different countries do research their work with Incredible researchers from these countries. Andre is a director at Coventry University. UK Adela is at University of Malaya Malaysia, and you know, others are from different spaces as well. And basically this project which was around when I have two years helped.
Asia comparing it to life in the UK. We try to understand how it really impacts women’s lives and life decisions. So it was an incredible project. Honestly, I got to go to different countries do research their work with Incredible researchers from these countries. Andre is a director at Coventry University. UK Adela is at University of Malaya Malaysia, and you know, others are from different spaces as well. And basically this project which was around when I have two years helped.
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Understand how how incredibly important abilities for women and how underestimated this this huge site is around the world whether it’s like developed countries or developing countries. It’s really neglected not looked upon as a significant area. But as we’re talking about women rights as we’re talking about growth as we’re talking about moving forward 2021 this Century, this is a very very very important topic. So yeah based on the work that we did in that project. This book chapter is sort of like a synthesis from there.
Understand how how incredibly important abilities for women and how underestimated this this huge site is around the world whether it’s like developed countries or developing countries. It’s really neglected not looked upon as a significant area. But as we’re talking about women rights as we’re talking about growth as we’re talking about moving forward 2021 this Century, this is a very very very important topic. So yeah based on the work that we did in that project. This book chapter is sort of like a synthesis from there.
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What we found what we understood what policymakers and decision makers should be looking at and my talks were also revolving around that particular thing and I’ll talk more about the insights and everything as we move forward, but just to give you a just of it. This is what it was awesome the kind of where I want to start just because I’m guessing this some people there to listening to this may have the question when you talk about women’s Mobility. Can you imagine what’s more definition on what that is what you were actually studying absolutely and great question because I keep forgetting. It’s my context ha ha ha
What we found what we understood what policymakers and decision makers should be looking at and my talks were also revolving around that particular thing and I’ll talk more about the insights and everything as we move forward, but just to give you a just of it. This is what it was awesome the kind of where I want to start just because I’m guessing this some people there to listening to this may have the question when you talk about women’s Mobility. Can you imagine what’s more definition on what that is what you were actually studying absolutely and great question because I keep forgetting. It’s my context ha ha ha
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might not be the same context what I mean by that is traveling commute even migration and immigration emigration both for women particularly going to work going to places for Education Leisure changing lives making Life Choices. So everything related to Transportation commute and moving from one place to another for women. We put it together under the idea of Mobility for women and women’s Mobility. Got it. Okay, that is definitely helpful.
might not be the same context what I mean by that is traveling commute even migration and immigration emigration both for women particularly going to work going to places for Education Leisure changing lives making Life Choices. So everything related to Transportation commute and moving from one place to another for women. We put it together under the idea of Mobility for women and women’s Mobility. Got it. Okay, that is definitely helpful.
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Context one of my first questions is of all this research you did. How did you do the research right because for us who are research nerds in thinking about this cross-cultural cross-country and not even just the operations. But how do you decide what kind of research you’re going to do and how you were going to conduct that? It was kind of hard to decide that because as I was saying like women’s Mobility if all of these Concepts and like all of this travel commute migration comes in that then where do you start? Where do you end? So our first question in this was okay, where do we put that line? Which passes?
Context one of my first questions is of all this research you did. How did you do the research right because for us who are research nerds in thinking about this cross-cultural cross-country and not even just the operations. But how do you decide what kind of research you’re going to do and how you were going to conduct that? It was kind of hard to decide that because as I was saying like women’s Mobility if all of these Concepts and like all of this travel commute migration comes in that then where do you start? Where do you end? So our first question in this was okay, where do we put that line? Which passes?
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Box, are we going to keep because and ux research and in any research is kind of important to Define that box like so that you know, you’re not just going crazy with the data and information and everything so they pulled it together and we decided okay, then a focus on commute and travel right? We will leave the inter country and across border commute for now. We’re going to focus on low middle income countries, particularly Pakistan and Malaysia and we’re going to even narrow it down in Malaysia. We focused particularly in cold.
Box, are we going to keep because and ux research and in any research is kind of important to Define that box like so that you know, you’re not just going crazy with the data and information and everything so they pulled it together and we decided okay, then a focus on commute and travel right? We will leave the inter country and across border commute for now. We’re going to focus on low middle income countries, particularly Pakistan and Malaysia and we’re going to even narrow it down in Malaysia. We focused particularly in cold.
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For Pakistan to focus particularly in Lahore as our Center and in UK, we particularly focus on Coventry. So defining geographical boundaries for us and defining. Okay. This is commute and day-to-day traveling. It really helped narrow it down. So that was the starting point. Hmm. Then of course we figured okay who’s gonna do what because we were researchers from different parts of their backgrounds. We have ergonomics experts. We have architecture people. We have ux researcher design researchers and
For Pakistan to focus particularly in Lahore as our Center and in UK, we particularly focus on Coventry. So defining geographical boundaries for us and defining. Okay. This is commute and day-to-day traveling. It really helped narrow it down. So that was the starting point. Hmm. Then of course we figured okay who’s gonna do what because we were researchers from different parts of their backgrounds. We have ergonomics experts. We have architecture people. We have ux researcher design researchers and
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And we decided okay, we’re going to keep it interdisciplinary and we going to keep it across these fields because all these fields connect with the idea of Transportation Mobility. So these kind of things gave us a bit of structure and then in terms of methodology, we kind of limited it to okay, we’re going to keep it mixed methods, but we want to do just one thing for quantitative, which is surveys. We’re going to do one thing which is participatory and co.design methods. So we’re now gonna stray from that. We’re going to keep it that way and
And we decided okay, we’re going to keep it interdisciplinary and we going to keep it across these fields because all these fields connect with the idea of Transportation Mobility. So these kind of things gave us a bit of structure and then in terms of methodology, we kind of limited it to okay, we’re going to keep it mixed methods, but we want to do just one thing for quantitative, which is surveys. We’re going to do one thing which is participatory and co.design methods. So we’re now gonna stray from that. We’re going to keep it that way and
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Add a third element of finding Journeys, which was actually then this was something that came around later because we as researchers we decided to go to these countries. So we added a third layer to it, which is auto ethnography. We’re still trying to figure it out of the method and you know, this is one of the discussions we are figuring out like should we write about this method itself? Because this is this is super new as well. But Auto ethnography was basically us as researchers and also as a woman and women who have had experience of living in
Add a third element of finding Journeys, which was actually then this was something that came around later because we as researchers we decided to go to these countries. So we added a third layer to it, which is auto ethnography. We’re still trying to figure it out of the method and you know, this is one of the discussions we are figuring out like should we write about this method itself? Because this is this is super new as well. But Auto ethnography was basically us as researchers and also as a woman and women who have had experience of living in
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Different countries and traveling different countries. How did we experience mobility in those three countries Malaysia Pakistan UK. So that was a third layer that we added. But yeah keeping the methods keeping the location keeping our definitions helped us, you know get a starting point. Yeah. I mean, it makes a lot of sense because everything you even mentioned sort of in describing the project. There’s so many angles you could have decided to tackle on this you got to focus somewhere and it’s funny you and I were talking a little bit before we sort of started recording here.
Different countries and traveling different countries. How did we experience mobility in those three countries Malaysia Pakistan UK. So that was a third layer that we added. But yeah keeping the methods keeping the location keeping our definitions helped us, you know get a starting point. Yeah. I mean, it makes a lot of sense because everything you even mentioned sort of in describing the project. There’s so many angles you could have decided to tackle on this you got to focus somewhere and it’s funny you and I were talking a little bit before we sort of started recording here.
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In episode we had with Tom griever and one of the things that he actually mentioned in that is a lot of times we kind of run into problems with collaboration and working with stakeholders and stuff because we don’t have a clearly defined problem and it sounds like that’s exactly what you had to do is you said we need to define the box that we’re working in here. Yeah the right methods to apply to that. I do want to add here. Also we Define the box, but it was never that linear this question kept coming again. And again, even when we had the data we were like, okay now what which lends do we use?
In episode we had with Tom griever and one of the things that he actually mentioned in that is a lot of times we kind of run into problems with collaboration and working with stakeholders and stuff because we don’t have a clearly defined problem and it sounds like that’s exactly what you had to do is you said we need to define the box that we’re working in here. Yeah the right methods to apply to that. I do want to add here. Also we Define the box, but it was never that linear this question kept coming again. And again, even when we had the data we were like, okay now what which lends do we use?
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So which which perspective do we use? Who do we listen to what takes what I would say was a consistent conversation again, and again and especially in in teams where there’s a lot of different perspective coming in there can be all these complex cities off this particular question where the Box lies, you know, where where do we put this sort of end or like a temporary line to so yeah. Sure. Okay. Well, let’s dig into the real depth of this. What are the things that you learn? You know, what did you really take away from this?
So which which perspective do we use? Who do we listen to what takes what I would say was a consistent conversation again, and again and especially in in teams where there’s a lot of different perspective coming in there can be all these complex cities off this particular question where the Box lies, you know, where where do we put this sort of end or like a temporary line to so yeah. Sure. Okay. Well, let’s dig into the real depth of this. What are the things that you learn? You know, what did you really take away from this?
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At a high level, you know made insights that we would see as researchers. Do you want me to talk about it is there’s two sides to this. Do you want me to talk about it as a ux researcher or in the project about Mobility the insights and takeaways. I’m actually really glad that you asked for that clarification because I planned on asking about both. So when I was asking just now I was you know, imagine that everybody is listening are the stakeholder and you say okay. Here’s what we learned for the project. Yeah. What I do then also want to hear his what do you think you’ve learned from that experience that other researchers should know and kind of learn from
At a high level, you know made insights that we would see as researchers. Do you want me to talk about it is there’s two sides to this. Do you want me to talk about it as a ux researcher or in the project about Mobility the insights and takeaways. I’m actually really glad that you asked for that clarification because I planned on asking about both. So when I was asking just now I was you know, imagine that everybody is listening are the stakeholder and you say okay. Here’s what we learned for the project. Yeah. What I do then also want to hear his what do you think you’ve learned from that experience that other researchers should know and kind of learn from
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um, but let’s take it as maybe you know two parts. Absolutely. I think you have for our listeners. I think the ux researcher part will be more relevant and I really love sharing that part. I think it’s a very interesting question because I’ve reflected on a couple of times and every time I come up with a new inside. I’m like aha then think about this one but one of my biggest takeaways to be honest will be the experience of working with such different mines and being able to apply.
um, but let’s take it as maybe you know two parts. Absolutely. I think you have for our listeners. I think the ux researcher part will be more relevant and I really love sharing that part. I think it’s a very interesting question because I’ve reflected on a couple of times and every time I come up with a new inside. I’m like aha then think about this one but one of my biggest takeaways to be honest will be the experience of working with such different mines and being able to apply.
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I did theoretical linear understanding of collaboration to are super super complex version of it in reality. That’s my beef with Theory. Sometimes you can listen to it. You can read it and be like, okay, I know everything and then you start practicing it and you’re like what the hell like, where where is that? How do I take a pause step back and be like guys, let’s start from scratch. This is what the theory said. Let’s take it step by step never happens that way so my biggest takeaway in terms of that.
I did theoretical linear understanding of collaboration to are super super complex version of it in reality. That’s my beef with Theory. Sometimes you can listen to it. You can read it and be like, okay, I know everything and then you start practicing it and you’re like what the hell like, where where is that? How do I take a pause step back and be like guys, let’s start from scratch. This is what the theory said. Let’s take it step by step never happens that way so my biggest takeaway in terms of that.
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Was I learned how to accept the complexity and let it flow what I mean by that it they sound great words. Yeah, but what I mean by that it is that I read it in theory that when you’re collaborating with people try to make things more structured more organized. For example, if you take any participating method that we use is like always like okay in a world Cafe said people in a group give them, you know piece of paper ask them questions and they’ll start talking whenever it
Was I learned how to accept the complexity and let it flow what I mean by that it they sound great words. Yeah, but what I mean by that it is that I read it in theory that when you’re collaborating with people try to make things more structured more organized. For example, if you take any participating method that we use is like always like okay in a world Cafe said people in a group give them, you know piece of paper ask them questions and they’ll start talking whenever it
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In reality. It’s like everyone starts talking first and your leg. How do I bring them to this one question? And how do I stop them? Because that’s reality as humans. We like discussing. We saw the other person. We’re not just gonna sit there and be like, what’s up buddy? You know, I’m just going to look at you. We’re gonna start talking. So in this collaboration I had dr. Andre who was a director at Coventry University. I had dr. Dina who was who is a professor and both of them are still in the same position. She is from Urbana-Champaign University.
In reality. It’s like everyone starts talking first and your leg. How do I bring them to this one question? And how do I stop them? Because that’s reality as humans. We like discussing. We saw the other person. We’re not just gonna sit there and be like, what’s up buddy? You know, I’m just going to look at you. We’re gonna start talking. So in this collaboration I had dr. Andre who was a director at Coventry University. I had dr. Dina who was who is a professor and both of them are still in the same position. She is from Urbana-Champaign University.
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Is she is a senior Professor associate professor? I have my brother who is an architect from Boggess on I had dr. Adela and dr. Nick from University of Malaya who were working in design and architecture and Urban Design and I had me was been in ux research and has designed background and has been more on the on the system’s thinking side of things and social Innovation. So my biggest takeaway in this collaboration complexity was when we all sat down and we started thinking about okay, how do we do this?
Is she is a senior Professor associate professor? I have my brother who is an architect from Boggess on I had dr. Adela and dr. Nick from University of Malaya who were working in design and architecture and Urban Design and I had me was been in ux research and has designed background and has been more on the on the system’s thinking side of things and social Innovation. So my biggest takeaway in this collaboration complexity was when we all sat down and we started thinking about okay, how do we do this?
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Is how do we analyze this data? I realized there were just so many different perspectives and you know who takes a jump at it lucky for me. There was no one who wanted to be the dominant boy. It’s they all wanted to step back and be like, okay. No, no, tell me what you think tell me what you observed from this experience. That was a great thing. But whose narrative are we listening to and whose perspective in terms of observations analysis synthesis are we talking about so going through that in?
Is how do we analyze this data? I realized there were just so many different perspectives and you know who takes a jump at it lucky for me. There was no one who wanted to be the dominant boy. It’s they all wanted to step back and be like, okay. No, no, tell me what you think tell me what you observed from this experience. That was a great thing. But whose narrative are we listening to and whose perspective in terms of observations analysis synthesis are we talking about so going through that in?
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Reality was something that a big learning point was that theory is one thing and practices slightly more complex another takeaway that I will talk about will be as a ux researcher tagoma methods sounds very trivial sounds like a 101 about ux research. Of course, you should know all the methods, you know, and you are re ux researcher you should know which method to use when but when you actually are doing research in different countries, the context is a very different and that defines the methods you use for example
Reality was something that a big learning point was that theory is one thing and practices slightly more complex another takeaway that I will talk about will be as a ux researcher tagoma methods sounds very trivial sounds like a 101 about ux research. Of course, you should know all the methods, you know, and you are re ux researcher you should know which method to use when but when you actually are doing research in different countries, the context is a very different and that defines the methods you use for example
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Gaston I just couldn’t rely on being like, okay. I’m just gonna you know, put up a post about like Hey, we’re doing a World Cafe and whoo-hoo come together and talk to us about your mobility issues. It had to be a very one-on-one kind of invitation because the men are not really inclined to come to these kind of sessions or why would they, you know, go do it. What is a World Cafe to begin with but on the other hand and UK we could be be posted about it and we could be like people knew about it more like yeah, we want to talk about mobility. Of course.
Gaston I just couldn’t rely on being like, okay. I’m just gonna you know, put up a post about like Hey, we’re doing a World Cafe and whoo-hoo come together and talk to us about your mobility issues. It had to be a very one-on-one kind of invitation because the men are not really inclined to come to these kind of sessions or why would they, you know, go do it. What is a World Cafe to begin with but on the other hand and UK we could be be posted about it and we could be like people knew about it more like yeah, we want to talk about mobility. Of course.
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Course, I remember that event that transport Ministry had like a year ago. So this might be something similar. So it’s cool to do that. So you have to think about methods in a very contextual way which includes social stuff cultural stuff and in Malaysia we decided to have focus groups, but when I went to that focus group as a researcher a big barrier for me was language. Hmm. I don’t know how to talk in Malay and they looked at me like an outsider although physically and appearance-wise. I’m a brown person I could sell in with that but I
Course, I remember that event that transport Ministry had like a year ago. So this might be something similar. So it’s cool to do that. So you have to think about methods in a very contextual way which includes social stuff cultural stuff and in Malaysia we decided to have focus groups, but when I went to that focus group as a researcher a big barrier for me was language. Hmm. I don’t know how to talk in Malay and they looked at me like an outsider although physically and appearance-wise. I’m a brown person I could sell in with that but I
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Still you know step back because English was my way of communication. And for a lot of them was like okay, you know what you don’t even know are context. So yeah all these things about methods and how to deploy them was a was an insight for me and how its contextual. That’s I can only imagine. I mean, especially the language barrier. I mean, how did what happened there? So be very honest it wasn’t like a big big barrier in our project because lucky for us. We were doing it in a setting with women who are educated or slightly more.
Still you know step back because English was my way of communication. And for a lot of them was like okay, you know what you don’t even know are context. So yeah all these things about methods and how to deploy them was a was an insight for me and how its contextual. That’s I can only imagine. I mean, especially the language barrier. I mean, how did what happened there? So be very honest it wasn’t like a big big barrier in our project because lucky for us. We were doing it in a setting with women who are educated or slightly more.
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Created or could communicate in English at least to a basic level. So we didn’t struggle with it a lot, but I will mention that when we were conducting some sessions in Pakistan and in Malaysia, there were moments where some expressions and some experiences could only be expressed in a full way using that language. You know, when you want to when you want to actually explain that that extent of are you want to use your own language and be like, this is how exactly I fell so for example, we are talking about in pain.
Created or could communicate in English at least to a basic level. So we didn’t struggle with it a lot, but I will mention that when we were conducting some sessions in Pakistan and in Malaysia, there were moments where some expressions and some experiences could only be expressed in a full way using that language. You know, when you want to when you want to actually explain that that extent of are you want to use your own language and be like, this is how exactly I fell so for example, we are talking about in pain.
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Son, remember we’re talking about mobility issues and this topic of not having bathrooms for women on bus stops. And on workplaces was something that really restricted Mobility because you are a woman you were having your periods and then you have to go to your work and you have to wait at the bus stop for one hour. You can change your pad what I’m saying? Sounds like oh my God, why is she even talking about this? But yeah, that’s a very real thing and you can’t really Express the frustration you feel so wonderful one of the participants. Yeah.
Son, remember we’re talking about mobility issues and this topic of not having bathrooms for women on bus stops. And on workplaces was something that really restricted Mobility because you are a woman you were having your periods and then you have to go to your work and you have to wait at the bus stop for one hour. You can change your pad what I’m saying? Sounds like oh my God, why is she even talking about this? But yeah, that’s a very real thing and you can’t really Express the frustration you feel so wonderful one of the participants. Yeah.
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Actually started talking in order when she was like this is just you know ridiculous and I can talk about this with you girls, but I can’t bring it up in a public place where men are sitting in the bus stops and they’re the managers and they’re the ones making the rules. So this kind of language stuff. I found it very very interesting same with Malaysia. There was a woman who was a activist and she was talking English and everything but the moment she started talking to our researchers from Malaysia. She started it.
Actually started talking in order when she was like this is just you know ridiculous and I can talk about this with you girls, but I can’t bring it up in a public place where men are sitting in the bus stops and they’re the managers and they’re the ones making the rules. So this kind of language stuff. I found it very very interesting same with Malaysia. There was a woman who was a activist and she was talking English and everything but the moment she started talking to our researchers from Malaysia. She started it.
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Pressing the things she felt about it. She said it’s so politicized women are not represented even in this day and age. I’m an activist and I have to explain basic stuff. There was just one small moment. I actually it’s not relevant right in this question, but it just came to – very interesting. There was this one guy in Malaysia. He was a representative from the government and he gave a presentation saying about helmets and safety and I think just because he was used to it and said, well men are not that good.
Pressing the things she felt about it. She said it’s so politicized women are not represented even in this day and age. I’m an activist and I have to explain basic stuff. There was just one small moment. I actually it’s not relevant right in this question, but it just came to – very interesting. There was this one guy in Malaysia. He was a representative from the government and he gave a presentation saying about helmets and safety and I think just because he was used to it and said, well men are not that good.
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With taking care of themselves and safety, but women are very nice and they drive really slow and us sitting in the crowd will like how dare he ended activist was talking about it later. She was trying to be polite in English, but when she started talking in Malay, she was literally expressing that you know, what that guy just label us as women being slow and being a nuances in the in the transportation thing like when they’re driving so and holding everyone else back and
With taking care of themselves and safety, but women are very nice and they drive really slow and us sitting in the crowd will like how dare he ended activist was talking about it later. She was trying to be polite in English, but when she started talking in Malay, she was literally expressing that you know, what that guy just label us as women being slow and being a nuances in the in the transportation thing like when they’re driving so and holding everyone else back and
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Like how dare he like just as the stuff we talked about this is sexism. I just realized that the moment she couldn’t have said it better in English, you know? Yeah, so that’s one I wouldn’t label it as a barrier. I would just label it as contextual again contextual understanding of things how language can make so much of a difference in research. In fact that that was such a good point that you you mentioned there because even you know, you consider that you and I are having a conversation in English and that’s fine. But even in that case where we’re speaking a language that each of us understands there still.
Like how dare he like just as the stuff we talked about this is sexism. I just realized that the moment she couldn’t have said it better in English, you know? Yeah, so that’s one I wouldn’t label it as a barrier. I would just label it as contextual again contextual understanding of things how language can make so much of a difference in research. In fact that that was such a good point that you you mentioned there because even you know, you consider that you and I are having a conversation in English and that’s fine. But even in that case where we’re speaking a language that each of us understands there still.
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What’s is the proper word subtext even than the way that I might use that language, even though I understand it you understand it and I think that that’s something that’s useful for us as researchers to remember that even when were you know, a lot of us probably work in technology and software. It seems like fairly straightforward stuff as opposed to some of the challenges that you may have found in this cross-cultural study even in those situations. I don’t think it should be taken for granted to consider that just because we’re speaking the same language. Someone might not feel comfortable using their language in the way that they want to or
What’s is the proper word subtext even than the way that I might use that language, even though I understand it you understand it and I think that that’s something that’s useful for us as researchers to remember that even when were you know, a lot of us probably work in technology and software. It seems like fairly straightforward stuff as opposed to some of the challenges that you may have found in this cross-cultural study even in those situations. I don’t think it should be taken for granted to consider that just because we’re speaking the same language. Someone might not feel comfortable using their language in the way that they want to or
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Need to to appropriately Express, you know in answer to your question or or share their frustrations and things like that. Absolutely. I mean language defines culture social structures interactions is so much more than just communication in a in a verbal form at its sole. It’s like just the tip of the iceberg as so much deeper stuff. For example, I look back at Uber case study. They launched in India. They launched in Pakistan the way I experienced it in Pakistan was so so much different than the way I experience.
Need to to appropriately Express, you know in answer to your question or or share their frustrations and things like that. Absolutely. I mean language defines culture social structures interactions is so much more than just communication in a in a verbal form at its sole. It’s like just the tip of the iceberg as so much deeper stuff. For example, I look back at Uber case study. They launched in India. They launched in Pakistan the way I experienced it in Pakistan was so so much different than the way I experience.
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It in developed countries and Canada and us and one part of that is communication you sit in an Uber in Pakistan and the driver goes like in the local language. He goes like just in a very informal way like what’s up? Like, where are you gonna go and try to drop you and there is this the scare factor and that you’re a woman sitting in a stranger’s car in a country where the crime rate is insane. We’re says when I go into an Uber in Tramonto sometimes and I’m treated like hello ma’am and
It in developed countries and Canada and us and one part of that is communication you sit in an Uber in Pakistan and the driver goes like in the local language. He goes like just in a very informal way like what’s up? Like, where are you gonna go and try to drop you and there is this the scare factor and that you’re a woman sitting in a stranger’s car in a country where the crime rate is insane. We’re says when I go into an Uber in Tramonto sometimes and I’m treated like hello ma’am and
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Welcome and I have water and I have these are directions. I’m going to follow and you know, these are timelines and I feel like it’s so structured all of a sudden and that just me perceiving this while I’m sure people who are native English speakers my look at it differently and for me, too. I consider myself not as a great example of this because For Me growing Up English had always been a part of my education. So again, there is another layer to this I can compare to people who don’t have that context as
Welcome and I have water and I have these are directions. I’m going to follow and you know, these are timelines and I feel like it’s so structured all of a sudden and that just me perceiving this while I’m sure people who are native English speakers my look at it differently and for me, too. I consider myself not as a great example of this because For Me growing Up English had always been a part of my education. So again, there is another layer to this I can compare to people who don’t have that context as
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much so definitely in research this part and Ober kind of failed in India and Pakistan didn’t succeed the same way didn’t develop countries and you know, one of the things could be cultural and social aspects concerning language being wouldn’t tip of the iceberg sort of thing. Yeah for sure your comment. They’re actually reminded me of something I kind of wanted to ask you is that through your experience in doing this cross-cultural study on women’s mobility and all of the life.
much so definitely in research this part and Ober kind of failed in India and Pakistan didn’t succeed the same way didn’t develop countries and you know, one of the things could be cultural and social aspects concerning language being wouldn’t tip of the iceberg sort of thing. Yeah for sure your comment. They’re actually reminded me of something I kind of wanted to ask you is that through your experience in doing this cross-cultural study on women’s mobility and all of the life.
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Since you gained and just and even just practical research experience. Now you’re working in Toronto right on would assume more of the technology side of that of that product. What have you taken from that experience that you can apply to that work? Day-to-day great question. I think I want to reflect on that for a mini second here. So right now I’m working an inch or Tech. It’s a fintech. We are Insurance Brokerage calls insurance and we work with business owners. I think my biggest biggest
Since you gained and just and even just practical research experience. Now you’re working in Toronto right on would assume more of the technology side of that of that product. What have you taken from that experience that you can apply to that work? Day-to-day great question. I think I want to reflect on that for a mini second here. So right now I’m working an inch or Tech. It’s a fintech. We are Insurance Brokerage calls insurance and we work with business owners. I think my biggest biggest
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just take away from that research, which I can apply here. It’s actually that cross-cultural experience. So Tramonto is a very diverse place. We have people from all over the world living here and there are business owners who are from who moved here as immigrants from South Asia from East Asia from Africa from Europe from us all around the world when I talk to them, I think the experience of having this cross cultural background gives me one relatability factor.
just take away from that research, which I can apply here. It’s actually that cross-cultural experience. So Tramonto is a very diverse place. We have people from all over the world living here and there are business owners who are from who moved here as immigrants from South Asia from East Asia from Africa from Europe from us all around the world when I talk to them, I think the experience of having this cross cultural background gives me one relatability factor.
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Tend to find it easier to build trust sometimes because if they’re talking about us, I’m like, yeah, I’ve lived there. I know those things. I know those Foods instant connection. I can build that sort of trust to actually go deeper in the questions. If they’re from South Asia. I’ve spent my entire life there. I mean talk about it and I you know, I have that context so that relatability really adds to the trust Factor as a researcher, which I really value and then in terms of understanding little social and
Tend to find it easier to build trust sometimes because if they’re talking about us, I’m like, yeah, I’ve lived there. I know those things. I know those Foods instant connection. I can build that sort of trust to actually go deeper in the questions. If they’re from South Asia. I’ve spent my entire life there. I mean talk about it and I you know, I have that context so that relatability really adds to the trust Factor as a researcher, which I really value and then in terms of understanding little social and
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Cultural cues in responses, which I have to then sort of like deconstruct when I’m trying to understand the inside and that so for example, this guy who came as a participant for one of the studies as insurance. It’s so funny. He had his certificates like literally put a feather back and kept saying again and again, I’m an author of 15 books and I have talked here and there and whenever I’d ask him, okay, like how tell me more about the experience you had online with our services. He would be like if I was you.
Cultural cues in responses, which I have to then sort of like deconstruct when I’m trying to understand the inside and that so for example, this guy who came as a participant for one of the studies as insurance. It’s so funny. He had his certificates like literally put a feather back and kept saying again and again, I’m an author of 15 books and I have talked here and there and whenever I’d ask him, okay, like how tell me more about the experience you had online with our services. He would be like if I was you.
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I would change this thing because you know being as a consultant for fifteen years, I really think putting a drop down there is of no use to me. This is a cultural side of things a cultural aspect of showing off your part of things you’re part of experience so that your input is considered valuable and credible. Mmm. And when I was taking inside from that interview, I was like, okay breaking it down. This part of the response was him building that credibility and
I would change this thing because you know being as a consultant for fifteen years, I really think putting a drop down there is of no use to me. This is a cultural side of things a cultural aspect of showing off your part of things you’re part of experience so that your input is considered valuable and credible. Mmm. And when I was taking inside from that interview, I was like, okay breaking it down. This part of the response was him building that credibility and
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When he describes, why is that part where I can actually find an insight and take back to my team and be like guys we need to put a drop down because the slider is having a problem on the mobile are we need to find some solution to solve this slider issue? Because the thumb on the mobile is the problem. We’re trying to solve here. So I think having that background of understanding different context real close with my cross-cultural research and experience. I think it makes the sort of man.
When he describes, why is that part where I can actually find an insight and take back to my team and be like guys we need to put a drop down because the slider is having a problem on the mobile are we need to find some solution to solve this slider issue? Because the thumb on the mobile is the problem. We’re trying to solve here. So I think having that background of understanding different context real close with my cross-cultural research and experience. I think it makes the sort of man.
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Chuckle I would say or what’s the best word in a way more easier to break it down and then pick on those cultural cues. That’s good. I’m glad you shared that and you just for me is something I do in the show’s. I kind of bring it back and try to summarize something but I’m going to add my own personal take away to that and I think it might be helpful was that sort of just reminding yourself of trying to build that trust and rapport with anybody or doing research with so it’s it’s not a thing if you’re running a survey necessarily it’s not a thing if somebody’s
Chuckle I would say or what’s the best word in a way more easier to break it down and then pick on those cultural cues. That’s good. I’m glad you shared that and you just for me is something I do in the show’s. I kind of bring it back and try to summarize something but I’m going to add my own personal take away to that and I think it might be helpful was that sort of just reminding yourself of trying to build that trust and rapport with anybody or doing research with so it’s it’s not a thing if you’re running a survey necessarily it’s not a thing if somebody’s
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Just filling out a feedback form, but it’s very very different. You’re jumping on a call or if you’re meeting somebody in person and having a conversation. I know I’ve certainly Fallen victim to where I’m so focused on the thing. I want to learn in the answer that I need to get in order to do my job better or provide direction or recommendations from the research we do that you don’t spend as much time building that trust and the thing is even if you get the answer maybe you didn’t earn enough trust with that person to really get deeper and what you could have learned aha. That’s something really worth I think.
Just filling out a feedback form, but it’s very very different. You’re jumping on a call or if you’re meeting somebody in person and having a conversation. I know I’ve certainly Fallen victim to where I’m so focused on the thing. I want to learn in the answer that I need to get in order to do my job better or provide direction or recommendations from the research we do that you don’t spend as much time building that trust and the thing is even if you get the answer maybe you didn’t earn enough trust with that person to really get deeper and what you could have learned aha. That’s something really worth I think.
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All of our you know ourselves about is that a fair summary. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think I look at us ux researcher that’s almost like part therapist, you know, when the therapist builds that trust that you want to actually share you a real life story with them instead of just a version that you share everywhere else. That’s where you want to be at to actually get valuable insights, especially when it comes to the financial sector or when it comes to business or more things where people don’t want to share their
All of our you know ourselves about is that a fair summary. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think I look at us ux researcher that’s almost like part therapist, you know, when the therapist builds that trust that you want to actually share you a real life story with them instead of just a version that you share everywhere else. That’s where you want to be at to actually get valuable insights, especially when it comes to the financial sector or when it comes to business or more things where people don’t want to share their
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Their actual Secrets or their actual desires or even like studies that include sexual behavior or they include more intimate Behavior or you know for women when it comes to their bodies and stuff all these kinds of research as a ux researcher, you have to really build that trust because otherwise you just kind of get superficial insights and you know, you’ve done your job grade you’ll find some insights. But if you want to hit the nail, you know the right spot like you have to have that trust, you know.
Their actual Secrets or their actual desires or even like studies that include sexual behavior or they include more intimate Behavior or you know for women when it comes to their bodies and stuff all these kinds of research as a ux researcher, you have to really build that trust because otherwise you just kind of get superficial insights and you know, you’ve done your job grade you’ll find some insights. But if you want to hit the nail, you know the right spot like you have to have that trust, you know.
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I see myself as a psychotherapist in the first 10 minutes and then I switch lay. Okay, I’ma find her now. Yeah, I mean that’s it’s just such a big deal, you know, and like what you’re sharing is a good reminder for me of that. And so I guess that’s why I’m sharing it as sort of a summary. Maybe it’s my own bias. Take away of what I’m sort of learning it summarizing based on what you’ve shared with us, but I think it’s really really worth bringing up because we don’t talk about it all that often. Right? I mean we talked about like you said the methodologies the execution maybe even how we analyzed it and that’s all great but in this
I see myself as a psychotherapist in the first 10 minutes and then I switch lay. Okay, I’ma find her now. Yeah, I mean that’s it’s just such a big deal, you know, and like what you’re sharing is a good reminder for me of that. And so I guess that’s why I’m sharing it as sort of a summary. Maybe it’s my own bias. Take away of what I’m sort of learning it summarizing based on what you’ve shared with us, but I think it’s really really worth bringing up because we don’t talk about it all that often. Right? I mean we talked about like you said the methodologies the execution maybe even how we analyzed it and that’s all great but in this
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Very qualitative person-to-person ethnographic type research. If you ask somebody a question, you’ll get an answer to the question absolute equality of that answer matters. I think how comfortable they feel with you how much they trust you both in terms of whether or not you actually give a shit about what they’re saying, right? That’s number one and also to like do they trust you with the answers. They’re going to give you like can they trust you to keep that confidential and safe and use that appropriately, right? Yeah. There’s other things. I mean I’ve used this example of our
Very qualitative person-to-person ethnographic type research. If you ask somebody a question, you’ll get an answer to the question absolute equality of that answer matters. I think how comfortable they feel with you how much they trust you both in terms of whether or not you actually give a shit about what they’re saying, right? That’s number one and also to like do they trust you with the answers. They’re going to give you like can they trust you to keep that confidential and safe and use that appropriately, right? Yeah. There’s other things. I mean I’ve used this example of our
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Shannon in the start before we actually start recording this you said, you know, we don’t censor information and for me that that little moment was like great I can talk about things that I would not think about talking in a public space. So if I’m talking about women’s bodies and periods and all those things is because I felt comfortable was I when I mean, I don’t great. I don’t have to censor that you know and small thing but that bill stress. That’s how people trust but this conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah for sure. So, I think that
Shannon in the start before we actually start recording this you said, you know, we don’t censor information and for me that that little moment was like great I can talk about things that I would not think about talking in a public space. So if I’m talking about women’s bodies and periods and all those things is because I felt comfortable was I when I mean, I don’t great. I don’t have to censor that you know and small thing but that bill stress. That’s how people trust but this conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah for sure. So, I think that
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That all of us knew or seasoned an advanced practitioners and something to really kind of keep top of Mind especially now to I mean you think about like the social political climate we find ourselves in for sure in the US but I think around the world particularly with some things developing in the social media space just in in the general like the emphasis on privacy and you were data rights and things like that. There’s a lot that’s been discussed about that. We’re dealing with people’s lives here when we do this work and it’s just really important that we be respectful of that and
That all of us knew or seasoned an advanced practitioners and something to really kind of keep top of Mind especially now to I mean you think about like the social political climate we find ourselves in for sure in the US but I think around the world particularly with some things developing in the social media space just in in the general like the emphasis on privacy and you were data rights and things like that. There’s a lot that’s been discussed about that. We’re dealing with people’s lives here when we do this work and it’s just really important that we be respectful of that and
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That trust right pay attention to that before we expect to get answers for our questions. Absolutely and especially when you’re talking about social media. So social media has really crossed boundaries. It’s so Global. It’s so cross-cultural. It’s you can just decide one thing based on an understanding in UK and put it everywhere or in us and put it everywhere. It’s this realization of how contextual this is while it’s very Global and in that if you actually want to find those real insights
That trust right pay attention to that before we expect to get answers for our questions. Absolutely and especially when you’re talking about social media. So social media has really crossed boundaries. It’s so Global. It’s so cross-cultural. It’s you can just decide one thing based on an understanding in UK and put it everywhere or in us and put it everywhere. It’s this realization of how contextual this is while it’s very Global and in that if you actually want to find those real insights
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So you have to build that trust as I was saying like I stepped in and I felt like I could be in English and I look like you know a local Malaysia, but they would still see me as an outsider. What can I do as a ux researcher to really build that trust? I’m on your side, you know, sometimes I see people taking ux research in a very superficial way like okay ABC dun dun dun. I’m working the tech company I’ve done on my steps, but if you take this perspective to a bigger scale of social scale where people are doing work.
So you have to build that trust as I was saying like I stepped in and I felt like I could be in English and I look like you know a local Malaysia, but they would still see me as an outsider. What can I do as a ux researcher to really build that trust? I’m on your side, you know, sometimes I see people taking ux research in a very superficial way like okay ABC dun dun dun. I’m working the tech company I’ve done on my steps, but if you take this perspective to a bigger scale of social scale where people are doing work.
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Tech but in things like sensitive issues like political stuff rights women rise, you know recently we had such an outcry about colored people and it is so so important like and and if you’re building a tech company in that space man, you got to be sensitive about it and you got to be able to build that trust because otherwise, you know, why would someone shared their one herbicide and their problems and their challenges with you if you know if you were an outsider and I think the most important part of that
Tech but in things like sensitive issues like political stuff rights women rise, you know recently we had such an outcry about colored people and it is so so important like and and if you’re building a tech company in that space man, you got to be sensitive about it and you got to be able to build that trust because otherwise, you know, why would someone shared their one herbicide and their problems and their challenges with you if you know if you were an outsider and I think the most important part of that
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And that last bit that you just talked about is being genuine too because I think you know if you’re just kind of going through the motions of where it feels like. Oh this person is trying to build trust with me. Like that’s not it that’s not what you’re going for. You’re not checking a box you gotta and I think that that’s the thing right isn’t doing research is that you have to actually care about what this person has to share what they want to share. I think you have to start with the right intentions and we’ve talked about that a bit on other episodes in our show over various.
And that last bit that you just talked about is being genuine too because I think you know if you’re just kind of going through the motions of where it feels like. Oh this person is trying to build trust with me. Like that’s not it that’s not what you’re going for. You’re not checking a box you gotta and I think that that’s the thing right isn’t doing research is that you have to actually care about what this person has to share what they want to share. I think you have to start with the right intentions and we’ve talked about that a bit on other episodes in our show over various.
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I guess but you know keeps coming up. Absolutely. I think it’s a repeated theme attend the city and also it’s a reboot them in today’s world because social media and all these things continuously push us to present one side of us and maybe sometimes push things to a level where it’s not not really authentic anymore or are we are just trying too hard to pretend to be authentic but that’s not authentic and this idea of authenticity. I as a ux researcher always am questioning in like what is authentic anyways, okay. I’ll give you
I guess but you know keeps coming up. Absolutely. I think it’s a repeated theme attend the city and also it’s a reboot them in today’s world because social media and all these things continuously push us to present one side of us and maybe sometimes push things to a level where it’s not not really authentic anymore or are we are just trying too hard to pretend to be authentic but that’s not authentic and this idea of authenticity. I as a ux researcher always am questioning in like what is authentic anyways, okay. I’ll give you
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You a context some parts of me were authentic when I was in one country. Then some parts of me were then take when I was in another country then, you know another setting and all of that is me, but some people would look at me like oh, why is she so like warm and loud and everything which is authentic and one side of the world. But in the other side is considered like oh my God, like she’s just trying so hard maybe or she’s trying to be somebody on the other side. If you are like passive and reserved and you go into countries where warmth and loud.
You a context some parts of me were authentic when I was in one country. Then some parts of me were then take when I was in another country then, you know another setting and all of that is me, but some people would look at me like oh, why is she so like warm and loud and everything which is authentic and one side of the world. But in the other side is considered like oh my God, like she’s just trying so hard maybe or she’s trying to be somebody on the other side. If you are like passive and reserved and you go into countries where warmth and loud.
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Yours are more existent and you try to be that person who’s passed in there like where they are trying to present here like the trying to show off that they’re too far away. These little ladies are nuances and culture. That’s where I really find. The most fascinating thing is that’s where you build the idea of authenticity the idea of cultural context in the idea of building trust all the things that we talked about and these are the little nuances. Yeah, you know a through all of that you brought up this experience in Malaysia a few times where you know, maybe
Yours are more existent and you try to be that person who’s passed in there like where they are trying to present here like the trying to show off that they’re too far away. These little ladies are nuances and culture. That’s where I really find. The most fascinating thing is that’s where you build the idea of authenticity the idea of cultural context in the idea of building trust all the things that we talked about and these are the little nuances. Yeah, you know a through all of that you brought up this experience in Malaysia a few times where you know, maybe
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unquote looked the part but you were speaking a different language and they could have seen you. Was there any particular thing you did just sort of build some of that trust and really start to connect with those people so that you could have these real conversations for me. I think this is a great reminder of like so many of those moments. I think this happened to me and to us in general when we were building our team as researchers from like different countries when we were building trust with participants in those countries. It wasn’t a repeated thing now that I’m looking back and on my end what I do,
unquote looked the part but you were speaking a different language and they could have seen you. Was there any particular thing you did just sort of build some of that trust and really start to connect with those people so that you could have these real conversations for me. I think this is a great reminder of like so many of those moments. I think this happened to me and to us in general when we were building our team as researchers from like different countries when we were building trust with participants in those countries. It wasn’t a repeated thing now that I’m looking back and on my end what I do,
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I tried to do was finding some common spaces not forcing it, but trying to discover through conversations one by being stepping forward and being like hello, you know, I want to be here. My intention is that I don’t want to be considered an outsider. I want to be let in and chances are some good people but let you in because they see that positive intention. But the main thing I think was to find common grounds with the researchers that I was working with our Common Ground was we were
I tried to do was finding some common spaces not forcing it, but trying to discover through conversations one by being stepping forward and being like hello, you know, I want to be here. My intention is that I don’t want to be considered an outsider. I want to be let in and chances are some good people but let you in because they see that positive intention. But the main thing I think was to find common grounds with the researchers that I was working with our Common Ground was we were
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Only women who had traveled who had lived in different countries what face challenges on our own and so that read whether we were like, we really were a part in our age groups in our backgrounds, but that really connected us like that like it just built that formal informal sort of understanding like I know you and you’re not an other, you know, you’re one of us the same was true for the Malaysia part to offer the session when we started talking to everyone like open conversations. I stepped in and I talk to people
Only women who had traveled who had lived in different countries what face challenges on our own and so that read whether we were like, we really were a part in our age groups in our backgrounds, but that really connected us like that like it just built that formal informal sort of understanding like I know you and you’re not an other, you know, you’re one of us the same was true for the Malaysia part to offer the session when we started talking to everyone like open conversations. I stepped in and I talk to people
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I said, oh my God. Yeah, that’s true for us to you face that in Pakistan. Yeah, this is same here. And you know that bills that sort of common understanding it takes me back to this this point about strangers in a recent conversation one of my friends we were saying but who is a stranger anyways, you know, a strange is a person you can’t relate to otherwise a person you met and started dating and got in a relationship within a month becomes the person who is close to you and then a person who’s been living next to your house.
I said, oh my God. Yeah, that’s true for us to you face that in Pakistan. Yeah, this is same here. And you know that bills that sort of common understanding it takes me back to this this point about strangers in a recent conversation one of my friends we were saying but who is a stranger anyways, you know, a strange is a person you can’t relate to otherwise a person you met and started dating and got in a relationship within a month becomes the person who is close to you and then a person who’s been living next to your house.
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House for years and years is still a stranger why it’s that moment of connectivity where you will be busy become us instead of the other person who lives in the next door and same is true for ux research. And this experience of Malaysia experience in UK and Pakistan. That’s such a fascinating awesome point that you made were it’s almost like a stranger is someone you decide as a stranger, you know, if we show up yes, we’re person and we’re having a conversation not I’m here to research
House for years and years is still a stranger why it’s that moment of connectivity where you will be busy become us instead of the other person who lives in the next door and same is true for ux research. And this experience of Malaysia experience in UK and Pakistan. That’s such a fascinating awesome point that you made were it’s almost like a stranger is someone you decide as a stranger, you know, if we show up yes, we’re person and we’re having a conversation not I’m here to research
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You like that stiff the you know, that’s not yeah. Yeah. Yeah on and if it is and it’s we approach it you’re definitely gonna get a different result and it also made me think of some experiences I’ve had to where it says not every time but I have certainly had the experiences where you know you talk with people you say, okay, you know you explain what you’re here to do and maybe you build some initial trust and stuff and you have the the interview or the session and I’ve found that in some cases that person once you like. Okay. Yeah. I mean, that’s all the questions we had stuff like that anything else you want to chat about and then all of a sudden after the session ends.
You like that stiff the you know, that’s not yeah. Yeah. Yeah on and if it is and it’s we approach it you’re definitely gonna get a different result and it also made me think of some experiences I’ve had to where it says not every time but I have certainly had the experiences where you know you talk with people you say, okay, you know you explain what you’re here to do and maybe you build some initial trust and stuff and you have the the interview or the session and I’ve found that in some cases that person once you like. Okay. Yeah. I mean, that’s all the questions we had stuff like that anything else you want to chat about and then all of a sudden after the session ends.
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When you get some of the best information because then they feel like they can they can turn this other part of themselves off. They feel like they can see I don’t think that that’s right wrong or indifferent but it’s just something to be mindful of and it comes from trust. It comes from feeling comfortable Absolutely. I’ll share this one anecdote. So we had a maid in Pakistan Lahore and she would come every day to the office to do the cleaning. And this one day when we were working on this Mobility project. I went to her and I said where you’re coming from like, how do you commute? She’s like, oh I live like
When you get some of the best information because then they feel like they can they can turn this other part of themselves off. They feel like they can see I don’t think that that’s right wrong or indifferent but it’s just something to be mindful of and it comes from trust. It comes from feeling comfortable Absolutely. I’ll share this one anecdote. So we had a maid in Pakistan Lahore and she would come every day to the office to do the cleaning. And this one day when we were working on this Mobility project. I went to her and I said where you’re coming from like, how do you commute? She’s like, oh I live like
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Two hours away to hour’s commute away and my brother he was the one who actually insisted that I talked to her because he was like, I think we have a really good experience here, which is very anecdotal. And of course you didn’t know we were interviewing her or we were actually digging for some information. So she opened up and said, you know what this is pathetic. Our public buses are like this and you know, I have to change from one Rickshaw. Rickshaw is a small tree wheel ride from Rickshaw to bus to ricksha to walking.
Two hours away to hour’s commute away and my brother he was the one who actually insisted that I talked to her because he was like, I think we have a really good experience here, which is very anecdotal. And of course you didn’t know we were interviewing her or we were actually digging for some information. So she opened up and said, you know what this is pathetic. Our public buses are like this and you know, I have to change from one Rickshaw. Rickshaw is a small tree wheel ride from Rickshaw to bus to ricksha to walking.
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And you know, it’s I spent two hours coming one way and two hours going back ways. And I wonder why am I doing this for just you know some money and she was really really digging deeper into problems in the bus problems in the Rickshaw and she was complaining in a way but she was so open and free to do that but in contrast when we were in World cafes and we were talking I noticed everyone could not open up like that because they were like, oh, you know what we have to protect the image of our country. This is a cross-cultural research and
And you know, it’s I spent two hours coming one way and two hours going back ways. And I wonder why am I doing this for just you know some money and she was really really digging deeper into problems in the bus problems in the Rickshaw and she was complaining in a way but she was so open and free to do that but in contrast when we were in World cafes and we were talking I noticed everyone could not open up like that because they were like, oh, you know what we have to protect the image of our country. This is a cross-cultural research and
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All we don’t want to show ourselves as like the stereotypical colonized version of these illiterate people, you know, that is like how you were saying after that conversation. The person opened up that’s the exact same difference of like this formal side informal side of things very very interesting for sure. Yeah. I think a lot of people ask me I’m sure you get similar questions where maybe they’re newer to the field or they’re trying to break into ux research field. And you know, how can I become good research or a better research? I think it’s these kind of things that really separate someone who like
All we don’t want to show ourselves as like the stereotypical colonized version of these illiterate people, you know, that is like how you were saying after that conversation. The person opened up that’s the exact same difference of like this formal side informal side of things very very interesting for sure. Yeah. I think a lot of people ask me I’m sure you get similar questions where maybe they’re newer to the field or they’re trying to break into ux research field. And you know, how can I become good research or a better research? I think it’s these kind of things that really separate someone who like
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you said knows the theories knows the practices can teach anybody how to structure set up an interview and everybody can ask questions. It’s a matter of getting this kind of experience in thinking about these kind of things. Who is this person? I’m talking to what might they be apprehensive about. What are the reasons like you said even culturally they might not want to share this with me because of the way that they’re you know concerned of how it might make them seem and things like that. I think it’s this kind of stuff that makes really good researchers. This is the advanced level of ux research that we need to start talking about because I’ve been questioning for a couple of
you said knows the theories knows the practices can teach anybody how to structure set up an interview and everybody can ask questions. It’s a matter of getting this kind of experience in thinking about these kind of things. Who is this person? I’m talking to what might they be apprehensive about. What are the reasons like you said even culturally they might not want to share this with me because of the way that they’re you know concerned of how it might make them seem and things like that. I think it’s this kind of stuff that makes really good researchers. This is the advanced level of ux research that we need to start talking about because I’ve been questioning for a couple of
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Years, I’ll make I’ve read so many books talk to people and every time is the same thing what methods even in job interviews like applying for senior positions and they send you a question are saying what methods do you think you use and just 101 questions and now that we’re talking about it absolutely agreed. These are the things that are the advanced level which differentiate you from just anyone doing the job. Where says you loving that field and you going to an advanced level understanding of it for sure awesome.
Years, I’ll make I’ve read so many books talk to people and every time is the same thing what methods even in job interviews like applying for senior positions and they send you a question are saying what methods do you think you use and just 101 questions and now that we’re talking about it absolutely agreed. These are the things that are the advanced level which differentiate you from just anyone doing the job. Where says you loving that field and you going to an advanced level understanding of it for sure awesome.
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No, we’re coming up towards the end of our time. I want to be respectful of that for you as I typically do in every episode I say, you know, if I if I got hit by a bus or I got it, you know, I don’t had forgot everything we talked about in somebody were to say, okay. Well, can you just summarize the conversation we had how would you answer that? I’d say we talked about a few things which were as researchers being mindful of the cultural complexity being mindful of how theory and practice can be different when we talk about collaboration when we talk about
No, we’re coming up towards the end of our time. I want to be respectful of that for you as I typically do in every episode I say, you know, if I if I got hit by a bus or I got it, you know, I don’t had forgot everything we talked about in somebody were to say, okay. Well, can you just summarize the conversation we had how would you answer that? I’d say we talked about a few things which were as researchers being mindful of the cultural complexity being mindful of how theory and practice can be different when we talk about collaboration when we talk about
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Would human interactions when we talk about how things happen in real participatory methods and co.design and all those brilliant words and ideologies when they happen in Rio really understanding and giving space to the to the actual complexity. I say this idea of building trust building not forcefully building it but finding that one connection, which actually can be a common connection to make someone feel like this person talking to me is on my side and not just, you know looking at me.
Would human interactions when we talk about how things happen in real participatory methods and co.design and all those brilliant words and ideologies when they happen in Rio really understanding and giving space to the to the actual complexity. I say this idea of building trust building not forcefully building it but finding that one connection, which actually can be a common connection to make someone feel like this person talking to me is on my side and not just, you know looking at me.
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Me as like a lab rat or something and I think just to wrap it up ux researchers tend to look at it in a philosophical way sometimes and I think being ux research as one side of that I would say to wrap our conversation up as like one inside is that we need to remember we are working with humans and even every working in Tech. We’re working we Rai whatever we have drew. Keep that Human Side of Things.
Me as like a lab rat or something and I think just to wrap it up ux researchers tend to look at it in a philosophical way sometimes and I think being ux research as one side of that I would say to wrap our conversation up as like one inside is that we need to remember we are working with humans and even every working in Tech. We’re working we Rai whatever we have drew. Keep that Human Side of Things.
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Live in some ways to be able to find more we are offer all discoverers and researchers are like, you know, those those people looking in for new things. So yeah, that’s how I’ll probably wrap it up. Nice as you summarize that there were a couple things that reminded me if I could add my takeaways some things you were saying, especially with building trust. It sounds to me like we need to meet the other person on their side not halfway we needed we need to meet them where they are because you know, it’s not this is
Live in some ways to be able to find more we are offer all discoverers and researchers are like, you know, those those people looking in for new things. So yeah, that’s how I’ll probably wrap it up. Nice as you summarize that there were a couple things that reminded me if I could add my takeaways some things you were saying, especially with building trust. It sounds to me like we need to meet the other person on their side not halfway we needed we need to meet them where they are because you know, it’s not this is
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Not a mutual thing. We’re there to learn from them and it should be on their terms. That’s I think that’s really important kind of keep that mindset of like a servant mindset. That worried. Yeah. I think it’s just really really useful. Well, this has been awesome. I’m certain we could discuss this even longer but unfortunately already out of time, but I’m curious. Is there anything you want to share with folks listening that maybe we didn’t talk about already one thing that I love just love to share is if anyone’s interested in talking about this further or knowing more about the work that I do or the word.
Not a mutual thing. We’re there to learn from them and it should be on their terms. That’s I think that’s really important kind of keep that mindset of like a servant mindset. That worried. Yeah. I think it’s just really really useful. Well, this has been awesome. I’m certain we could discuss this even longer but unfortunately already out of time, but I’m curious. Is there anything you want to share with folks listening that maybe we didn’t talk about already one thing that I love just love to share is if anyone’s interested in talking about this further or knowing more about the work that I do or the word.
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That I’m hoping to do. Please do reach out. I am planning to launch a new business idea in the travel and Mobility space. It’s called Wonder light hoping that I can once the traveling resumes that is helping to launch that and people interested. Please do reach out. I won’t reveal what it is just yet. Please do check out the book that I’ve co-authored. It’s an incredible incredible book there. It brings together researchers from around the world doing projects in so many different spaces on
That I’m hoping to do. Please do reach out. I am planning to launch a new business idea in the travel and Mobility space. It’s called Wonder light hoping that I can once the traveling resumes that is helping to launch that and people interested. Please do reach out. I won’t reveal what it is just yet. Please do check out the book that I’ve co-authored. It’s an incredible incredible book there. It brings together researchers from around the world doing projects in so many different spaces on
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On gender on how cities look like and how experiences of the Cities can be designed and developed to incorporate equality and equity and fairness. Yeah. That’s that’s all what I’ll say. Okay awesome and we can make sure to include some links in the show notes of some of that stuff. So when you’re listening go ahead over to page where we’ve got the episode with Kamal and go ahead and check those things out. Otherwise, I just want to thank you again for taking the time really really awesome very interesting conversation in background and life.
On gender on how cities look like and how experiences of the Cities can be designed and developed to incorporate equality and equity and fairness. Yeah. That’s that’s all what I’ll say. Okay awesome and we can make sure to include some links in the show notes of some of that stuff. So when you’re listening go ahead over to page where we’ve got the episode with Kamal and go ahead and check those things out. Otherwise, I just want to thank you again for taking the time really really awesome very interesting conversation in background and life.
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She shared with us. It was a pleasure. That gone is lead. This was such a such a reflective conversation. Thank you so much. Nice likewise. All right, everybody will see you next time. This podcast is brought to you by Aurelius the research and insights tool that helps you analyze search and share all your research in one place. So you can go from data to insights to action faster and easier check out Aurelius for yourself with a 30-day trial by going to Aurelius lab.com. That’s a you re
She shared with us. It was a pleasure. That gone is lead. This was such a such a reflective conversation. Thank you so much. Nice likewise. All right, everybody will see you next time. This podcast is brought to you by Aurelius the research and insights tool that helps you analyze search and share all your research in one place. So you can go from data to insights to action faster and easier check out Aurelius for yourself with a 30-day trial by going to Aurelius lab.com. That’s a you re
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u.s. La b.com. If you enjoyed this episode it would mean a lot. If you would give us a review on iTunes let others know what you think. You can catch all-new episodes of the Aurelius podcast anywhere you listen to podcasts like iTunes Spotify and more stay up to date when new episodes come out by signing up for email updates on our website.
u.s. La b.com. If you enjoyed this episode it would mean a lot. If you would give us a review on iTunes let others know what you think. You can catch all-new episodes of the Aurelius podcast anywhere you listen to podcasts like iTunes Spotify and more stay up to date when new episodes come out by signing up for email updates on our website.
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